Thoughts On God's Forgiveness #3
Ghazan,
The Muslim and Christian view of God/Allah is, in fact, very similar. The names of God as recited in your faith (a traditional list with commentary can be found here) are all acceptable to Jews and Christians as descriptive of God's nature.
Yes, of course God is a merciful and a forgiving God. But God is also a holy God; pure and spotless and perfect in righteousness. None of us come close to this. We all fall short of the glory of God. This is what Christians call sin...falling short of the holiness that we were created to enjoy.
Besides the nature and person of Jesus Christ, one of the biggest differences between Muslims and Christians is how we believe God deals with our sin.
You, Ghazan, and Kashan before you, have described the relationship between our sin and the attitude of our heart towards God. Christians agree with this, too. When we turn away from our sinful nature and set our eyes on loving, serving and pleasing God, this is what we call "repentence." For Christians, this is the first step a person takes in faith....it is a step that is necessary for a person to receive the assurance of God's forgiveness and salvation.
The difference between us is that you state that God can forgive who he pleases.... God declares that he will forgive the sins of a man or woman whose heart is inclined towards him......whose goodness and righteousness exceeds their sin.
Chrisitians also believe this. But we also recognize something more. Our sin may have been forgiven but we are still sinners. No matter how good and righteous we may be, we will still carry that sinful part of us into Paradise where we will, like Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, begin the fall of humanity all over again by sinning again.
This raises an interesting question: If Adam and Eve were righteous prophets and yet sinned against God, why did God expel them from his presence. Why did God not simply forgive them in the same way that you believe God will forgive you and let them back into the garden?
The reason is that, once back in the garden, they would have sinned again.....and again....and again....
Sin was imbedded in Adam and Eve in the same way it is embedded in us today....like a malignant tumor that eats at us and eventually brings death to us....even if 80-90% of the rest of our body is healthy and fit.....Yet because of the tumor, we will still die, just as a mostly righteous man will also die because of the sin that is in him. No matter how small the sin, it will still be enough to kill him.
Forgiveness was not enough. God's holiness and perfect righteousness requires that we also be holy and righteousness if we are to ever stand in his presence in Paradise. Holy and unholy, righteous and unrighteous cannot stand side by side.
This is why Christians believe that Jesus is the Savior of the World. At the time of his baptism, John the Baptist prophesied of Jesus, "Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world." Note that Jesus does not just take away the sins of the world, the bad things that we do....John declares that Jesus takes away the SIN of the world....Sin itself is taken away.
Forgiving a sin is like treating a symptom of a disease. What Jesus did was to remove the disease itself. Jesus cured us of sin. He removed it from us. Where did the sin go? The Injil tells us that Jesus took our sin upon himself and died with it.
When, in resurrection, we stand before God in judgement, the risen Jesus will stand alongside us and declare us to be not only forgiven but cleansed and purified totally and completely so that in holiness and righteousness we can live with God forever.
You ask, If Jesus took our sin, then he died a sinner and therefore he was neither a prophet nor was he sinless. How can this be?
My answer: Being righteous and holy, Jesus was immune to sin. He could embrace it and take to himself but it could not infect him. When he died on the cross, the sin, along with his body, died and was buried with him in the tomb. When he arose from the dead, the sin remained in the tomb (so to speak) dead and buried forever.
How can Jesus be righteous and holy? No human being can be righteous, holy and good. Jesus himself said so. When someone once called him, "Good teacher," Jesus replied by saying, "Why do you call me 'good?' There is only One who is "good." (meaning God). It is important to note that nowhere in this teaching does Jesus tell the man that he was wrong to call Jesus "good." He just wanted the man to know what he had unwittingly done, he had declared Jesus to be holy, righteous and good as only God can be holy, righteous and good.
Either Jesus was a sinner like you and me, and therefore could not bear our sin on the cross (in which case we are not saved) or else he was holy, righteous and good as only God can be holy, righteous and good....in which case he is not only our Savior but is also our Lord. This is exactly what Jesus taught his followers when he said, "I and the Father are One." And again, "He who has seen me has seen the Father."
This is what every Christian confesses to believe when they claim Jesus to be their Lord and Savior.
Islam, however, does not offer a Savior.
God may indeed forgive your sins in the final judgement, Ghazan, but that forgiveness will not make you holy, righteous or spiritually clean. How do you think you can enter Paradise in the presence of God and take sin along with you? Is Paradise populated by millions of people who are "mostly good" but still doing "just a few" evil things against God and one another from time to time? How can a holy and righteous God tolerate such rebellion within his people. Surely they all will be cast out just like Adam and Eve were in the beginning.
The Muslim and Christian view of God/Allah is, in fact, very similar. The names of God as recited in your faith (a traditional list with commentary can be found here) are all acceptable to Jews and Christians as descriptive of God's nature.
Yes, of course God is a merciful and a forgiving God. But God is also a holy God; pure and spotless and perfect in righteousness. None of us come close to this. We all fall short of the glory of God. This is what Christians call sin...falling short of the holiness that we were created to enjoy.
Besides the nature and person of Jesus Christ, one of the biggest differences between Muslims and Christians is how we believe God deals with our sin.
You, Ghazan, and Kashan before you, have described the relationship between our sin and the attitude of our heart towards God. Christians agree with this, too. When we turn away from our sinful nature and set our eyes on loving, serving and pleasing God, this is what we call "repentence." For Christians, this is the first step a person takes in faith....it is a step that is necessary for a person to receive the assurance of God's forgiveness and salvation.
The difference between us is that you state that God can forgive who he pleases.... God declares that he will forgive the sins of a man or woman whose heart is inclined towards him......whose goodness and righteousness exceeds their sin.
Chrisitians also believe this. But we also recognize something more. Our sin may have been forgiven but we are still sinners. No matter how good and righteous we may be, we will still carry that sinful part of us into Paradise where we will, like Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, begin the fall of humanity all over again by sinning again.
This raises an interesting question: If Adam and Eve were righteous prophets and yet sinned against God, why did God expel them from his presence. Why did God not simply forgive them in the same way that you believe God will forgive you and let them back into the garden?
The reason is that, once back in the garden, they would have sinned again.....and again....and again....
Sin was imbedded in Adam and Eve in the same way it is embedded in us today....like a malignant tumor that eats at us and eventually brings death to us....even if 80-90% of the rest of our body is healthy and fit.....Yet because of the tumor, we will still die, just as a mostly righteous man will also die because of the sin that is in him. No matter how small the sin, it will still be enough to kill him.
Forgiveness was not enough. God's holiness and perfect righteousness requires that we also be holy and righteousness if we are to ever stand in his presence in Paradise. Holy and unholy, righteous and unrighteous cannot stand side by side.
This is why Christians believe that Jesus is the Savior of the World. At the time of his baptism, John the Baptist prophesied of Jesus, "Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world." Note that Jesus does not just take away the sins of the world, the bad things that we do....John declares that Jesus takes away the SIN of the world....Sin itself is taken away.
Forgiving a sin is like treating a symptom of a disease. What Jesus did was to remove the disease itself. Jesus cured us of sin. He removed it from us. Where did the sin go? The Injil tells us that Jesus took our sin upon himself and died with it.
When, in resurrection, we stand before God in judgement, the risen Jesus will stand alongside us and declare us to be not only forgiven but cleansed and purified totally and completely so that in holiness and righteousness we can live with God forever.
You ask, If Jesus took our sin, then he died a sinner and therefore he was neither a prophet nor was he sinless. How can this be?
My answer: Being righteous and holy, Jesus was immune to sin. He could embrace it and take to himself but it could not infect him. When he died on the cross, the sin, along with his body, died and was buried with him in the tomb. When he arose from the dead, the sin remained in the tomb (so to speak) dead and buried forever.
How can Jesus be righteous and holy? No human being can be righteous, holy and good. Jesus himself said so. When someone once called him, "Good teacher," Jesus replied by saying, "Why do you call me 'good?' There is only One who is "good." (meaning God). It is important to note that nowhere in this teaching does Jesus tell the man that he was wrong to call Jesus "good." He just wanted the man to know what he had unwittingly done, he had declared Jesus to be holy, righteous and good as only God can be holy, righteous and good.
Either Jesus was a sinner like you and me, and therefore could not bear our sin on the cross (in which case we are not saved) or else he was holy, righteous and good as only God can be holy, righteous and good....in which case he is not only our Savior but is also our Lord. This is exactly what Jesus taught his followers when he said, "I and the Father are One." And again, "He who has seen me has seen the Father."
This is what every Christian confesses to believe when they claim Jesus to be their Lord and Savior.
Islam, however, does not offer a Savior.
God may indeed forgive your sins in the final judgement, Ghazan, but that forgiveness will not make you holy, righteous or spiritually clean. How do you think you can enter Paradise in the presence of God and take sin along with you? Is Paradise populated by millions of people who are "mostly good" but still doing "just a few" evil things against God and one another from time to time? How can a holy and righteous God tolerate such rebellion within his people. Surely they all will be cast out just like Adam and Eve were in the beginning.
posted by Bird of Paradise at 9:33 PM
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